On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Jeff Squyres <jsquyres_at_[hidden]> wrote:
> On Apr 13, 2009, at 2:08 PM, Mike Dubman wrote:
> Hello Ethan,
> Sorry for joining the discussion late... I was on travel last week and that
> always makes me waaay behind on my INBOX. :-(
> On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Ethan Mallove <ethan.mallove_at_[hidden]>
>> Will this translate to something like
>> lib/MTT/Reporter/GoogleDatabase.pm? If we are to move away from the
>> current MTT Postgres database, we want to be able to submit results to
>> both the current MTT database and the new Google database during the
>> transition period. Having a GoogleDatabase.pm would make this easier.
>> I think we should keep both storage options: current postgress and
>> datastore. The mtt changes will be minor to support datastore.
>> Due that fact that google appengine API (as well as datastore API) can be
>> python or java only, we will create external scripts to manipulate datastore
> Ah, good point (python/java not perl). But I think that
> lib/MTT/Reporter/GoogleDataStore.pm could still be a good thing -- we have
> invested a lot of time/effort into getting our particular mtt clients setup
> just the way we want them, setting up INI files, submitting to batch
> schedulers, etc.
> A GoogleDataStore.pm reporter could well fork/exec a python/java executable
> to do the actual communication/storing of the data, right...? More below.
completely agree, once we have external python/java/cobol scripts to
manipulate GDS objects, we should wrap it by perl and call from MTT in same
way like it works today for submitting to the postgress.
> The mtt will dump test results in xml format. Then, we provide two python
>> (or java?) scripts:
>> mtt-results-submit-to-datastore.py - script will be called at the end of
>> mtt run and will read xml files, create objects and save to datastore
> Could be pretty easy to have a Reporter/GDS.pm (I keep making that filename
> shorter, don't I? :-) ) that simply invokes the mtt-result-
> submit-to-datastore.pt script on the xml that it dumped for that
> particular test.
> Specifically: I do like having partial results submitted while my MTT tests
> are running. Cisco's testing cycle is about 24 hours, but groups of tests
> are finishing all the time, so it's good to see those results without having
> to wait the full 24 hours before anything shows up. I guess that's my only
> comment on the idea of having a script that traverses the MTT scratch to
> find / submit everything -- I'd prefer if we kept the same Reporter idea and
> used an underlying .py script to submit results as they become ready.
> Is this do-able?
sounds good, we should introduce some guid (like pid) for mtt session, where
all mtt results generated by this session will be referring to this guid.
Later we use this guid to submit partial results as they become ready and
connect it to the appropriate mtt session object (see models.py)
> mtt-results-query.py - sample script to query datastore and generate some
>> simple visual/tabular reports. It will serve as tutorial for howto access
>> mtt data from scripts for reporting.
>> Later, we add another script to replace php web frontend. It will be
>> hosted on google appengine machines and will provide web viewer for mtt
>> results. (same way like index.php does today)
> Sounds good.
> > b. mtt_save_to_db.py - script which will go over mtt scratch dir,
>> > all xml files generated for every mtt phase, parse it and save to
>> > datastore, preserving test results relations,i.e. all test results
>> > be grouped by mtt general info: mpi version, name, date, ....
>> > c. same script can scan, parse and save from xml files generated by
>> > wrapper scripts for non mtt based executions (fluent, ..)
>> I'm confused here. Can't MTT be outfitted to report results of a
>> Fluent run?
>> I think we can enhance mtt to be not only mpi testing platform, but also
>> to serve as mpi benchmarking platform. We can use datastore to keep
>> mpi-based benchmarking results in the same manner like mtt does for testing
>> results. (no changes to mtt required for that, it is just a side effect of
>> using datastore to keep data of any type)
> I think that Ethan was asking was: can't MTT run Fluent and then use the
> normal Reporter mechanism to report the results into whatever back-end data
> store we have? (postgres or GDS)
ahhh, okie, i see.
Correct me if Im wrong, the current mtt implementation allows following way
of executing mpi test:
/path/to/mpirun <mpirun options> <test>
Many mpi based applications have embedded MPI libraries and non-standard way
to start it, one should set env variable to point to desired mpi
installation or pass it as cmd line argument, for example:
fluent <cmd line args>
pamworld -np 2 -mpidir=/path/to/openmpi/dir ....
Im not sure if it is possible to express that execution semantic in mtt ini
file. Please suggest.
So far, it seems that such executions can be handled externally from mtt but
using same object model.
> I can see the value of both sides -- a) using the MTT client as the gateway
> to *all* data storage, or b) making MTT but one (possibly of many) tools
> that can write into the GDS. a) certainly is more attractive towards having
> a common data format back in GDS such that a single web tool is capable of
> reporting from the data and being able to make conherent sense out of the
> data (vs. 3rd party tools that put data back in GDS that may not be in
> exactly the same format / layout and therefore our web reporter may not be
> able to make sense out of the data and report on it).
> I think that having a Reporter/GDS.pm that system()'s the back-end python
> script gives the best of both worlds -- the MTT client can [continue to]
> submit results in the normal way, but there's also a standalone script that
> can submit results from external tool runs (e.g., manually running Fluent,
> parsing the results, and submitting to our GDS). And hopefully the back-end
> python script will enforce a specific structure to the data that is
> submitted so that all tools -- MTT and any 3rd party tools -- adhere to the
> same format and the reporter can therefore report on it coherently.
agree. (a) is a preferred form. (b) can be used for tools that cannot be
called from mtt.
> For the attachment...
> I can "sorta read" python, but I'm not familiar with its intricacies and
> its internal APIs.
> - models.py: looks good. I don't know if *all* the fields we have are
> listed here; it looks fairly short to me. Did you attempt to include all of
> the fields we submit through the various phases in Reporter are there, or
> did you intentionally leave some out? (I honestly haven't checked; it just
> "feels short" to me compared to our SQL schema).
I listed only some of the fields in every object representing specific test
result source (called phase in mtt language). This is because every test
result source object is derived from python provided db.Expando class. This
gives us great flexibility, like adding dynamic attributes for every
objects, for example:
obj = new MttBuildPhaseResult()
obj.my_favorite_dynamic_key = "hello"
obj.my_another_dynamic_key = 7
So, we can have all phase attributes in the phase object without defining it
in the *sql schema way*. Also we can query object model by these dynamic
> --> meta question: is it in the zen of GDS to not have too many index
> fields like you would in SQL? I.e., if you want to do an operation on GDS
> that you
as far as it seems now, gds creates indexes automatically and also provides
API to define indexes manually.
> would typically use an SQL index field for, is the idea that you would do a
> map/reduce to select the data instead of an index field?
yep. seems correct.
> - start_datastore.sh: hmm. This script seems to imply that the datastore
> is *local*! Don't we have to HTTP submit the results to Google? More
> specifically: what is dev_appserver.py? Is that, perchance, just a local
> proxy agent that will end up submitting our data to $datastore_path, which
> actually resides at Google? Do we have to use a specific google
> username/URL to submit (and query) results?
You need to download google`s sdk (dev_appserver.py is a part of it). In
order to develop for gds you run your code inside sdk locally, and when
feel comfortable with it - you upload it to the google cluster. In order to
run attached example, you need to download sdk, put it in the following dir
and run start_datastore.sh, which will run local instance of GDS on your
machine.Then in another shell you need to run vbech-dev.py, which simulates
mtt client accessing GDS, storing some objects in according to proposed
models and then running some sql-like quires to fetch and manipulate
> - there's no comments in vbench-dev.py -- can you explain what's going on
> in there? Can you explain how we would use these scripts?
This is a mtt simulator, it implements google appengine API to receive HTTP
requests and call appropriate callbacks. (there is a map of specific urls to
The main callback (which intercepts http GET requests to specific URL) runs
the test code which creates objects defined in models.py, groups many test
results into MTTSession and they run some queries to access previously
The real mtt client will use URL pointing to MTT python code running at
google`s cluster, and use near same code to create/query/manipulate objects
defined in models.py.
> - it *looks* like these scripts are for storing data out in the GDS. Have
> you looked at the querying side? Do we know that storing data in the form
> you listed in models.py are easily retrievable in the ways that we want?
> E.g., can you mock up queries that resemble the queries we currently have
> in our web-based query system today, just to show that storing the data in
> this way will actually allow us to do the kinds of queries that we want to
I think vbench-dev.py shows some querying capabilities for stored objects,
there are many ways to query objects by object CLASS and Attributes.
see many examples here:
more querying examples we can use.
> In short: I think I'm missing much of the back-story / rationale of how the
> scripts in your tarball work / are to be used.
> BTW -- if it's useful to have a teleconference about this kind of stuff, I
> can host a WebEx meeting. WebEx has local dialins around the world,
> including Israel...
sure, what about next week?
> Jeff Squyres
> Cisco Systems