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From: Ralph Castain (rhc_at_[hidden])
Date: 2007-07-17 09:55:26


I believe that the only problem with that procedure is that it automatically
connects the new application with *all* pre-existing applications. There is
no discrimination possible as your client doesn't know the server's jobid,
nor is there any way for it to "discover" that information.

So this is fine IF you want that mode of operation (i.e., all applications
running with a persistent daemon that call connect are to be fully
interconnected to all predecessors). Perhaps that is adequate, but it isn't
what was told to me as the desired functionality.

Of course, there may be something in the MPI code that corrects this
behavior. What I'm describing is solely what is happening at the RTE
level...which means, of course, that the contact info for all those procs is
probably being exchanged even if the MPI layer is ignoring some of it. ;-)

On 7/17/07 7:13 AM, "Rolf vandeVaart" <Rolf.Vandevaart_at_[hidden]> wrote:

> Ralph Castain wrote:
>>
>> On 7/17/07 5:37 AM, "Jeff Squyres" <jsquyres_at_[hidden]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Jul 16, 2007, at 2:28 PM, Matthew Moskewicz wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> MPI-2 does support the MPI_COMM_JOIN and MPI_COMM_ACCEPT/
>>>>> MPI_COMM_CONNECT models. We do support this in Open MPI, but the
>>>>> restrictions (in terms of ORTE) may not be sufficient for you.
>>>>>
>>>> perhaps i'll experiment -- any clues as to what the orte
>>>> restrictions might be?
>>>>
>>> The main constraint is that you have to run a "persistent" orted that
>>> will span all your MPI_COMM_WORLD's. We have only lightly tested
>>> this scenario -- Ralph, can you comment more here?
>>>
>>
>> Actually, I'm not convinced Open MPI really supports either of those two MPI
>> semantics. It is true that we have something in our code repository, but I'm
>> not convinced it actually does what people think.
>>
>> There are two use-cases one must consider:
>>
>> 1. an application code spawns another job and then at some later point wants
>> to connect to it. Our current implementation of comm_spawn does this
>> automatically via the accept/connect procedure, so we have this covered.
>> However, it relies upon the notion that (a) the parent job *knows* the jobid
>> of the child, and (b) the parent sends a message to the child telling it
>> where and how to rendezvous with it. You don't need the persistent daemon
>> here.
>>
>> 2. a user starts one application, and then starts another (would have to be
>> in a separate window or batch job as we do not support running mpirun in the
>> background) that connects to the first. The problem here is that neither
>> application knows the jobid of the other, has no info on how to communicate
>> with the other, nor knows a common rendezvous point. You would definitely
>> need a persistent daemon for this use-case.
>>
>> I would have to review the code to see, but my best guess from what I
>> remember is that we don't actually support the second use-case at this time.
>> It would be possible to do so, albeit complicated - but I'm almost certain
>> nobody ever implemented it. I had talked at one time about providing the
>> necessary glue, either at the command line or (better) via some internal
>> "magic", but never got much interest - and so never did anything about
>> it...and I don't recall seeing anyone else make the necessary changes.
>>
> FWIW, these are the instructions that we documented for OMPI v1.2 for
> client/server
> (MPI_COMM_ACCEPT and MPI_COMM_CONNECT) from different jobs.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------
>
> USING MPI CLIENT/SERVER APPLICATIONS
>
> The instructions in this section explain how to get best results when
> starting Open
> MPI client/server applications.
>
> To Start the Persistent Daemon
> Note ­ The persistent daemon needs to run on the node where mpirun is
> started.
> 1. Use the cd command to move to the directory that contains the Sun HPC
> ClusterTools 7 binaries.
> % cd /opt/SUNWhpc/HPC7.0/bin
> 2. To start the persistent daemon, issue the following command,
> substituting the
> name of your MPI job¹s universe for univ1:
> % orted --persistent --seed --scope public --universe univ1 --debug
>
> The --persistent flag to orted (the ORTE daemon) starts the persistent
> daemon.
> You also need to set the --seed and --scope public options on the same
> command line, as shown in the example. The optional --debug flag prints out
> debugging messages.
>
> TO LAUNCH THE CLIENT/SERVER JOB
> Note ­ Make sure you launch all MPI client/server jobs from the same node on
> which you started the persistent daemon.
> 1. Type the following command to launch the server application.
> Substitute the
> name of your MPI job¹s universe for univ1:
> % ./mpirun -np 1 --universe univ1 t_accept
> 2. Type the following command to launch the client application,
> substituting the
> name of your MPI job¹s universe for univ1:
> % ./mpirun -np 4 --universe univ1 t_connect
>
> If the client and server jobs span more than 1 node, the first job (that
> is, the server
> job) must specify on the mpirun command line all the nodes that will be
> used.
> Specifying the node names allocates the specified hosts from the entire
> universe of
> server and client jobs.
>
> For example, if the server runs on node0 and the client job runs on
> node1 only, the
> command to launch the server must specify both nodes (using the -host
> node0,node1 flag) even it uses only one process on node0.
>
> Assuming that the persistent daemon is started on node0, the command to
> launch
> the server would look like this:
> node0% ./mpirun -np 1 --universe univ1 -host node0,node1 t_accept
> The command to launch the client is:
> n ode0% ./mpirun -np 4 --universe univ1 -host node1 t_connect
>
> Note ­ Name publishing does not work in jobs between different universes.
>
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